Former Military Administrator of Ondo and Oyo States, Colonel Ahmed Usman (rtd), in this interview with ISAAC SHOBAYO, recounts his experience as the administrator of the two states and speaks on other national issues. Excerpts:

SIR, your tenure in Ondo State was controversial, why was it so?
This thing took place about 14 years ago, it’s a long time, I cannot remember every detail but I can still remember some of  the incidents not the dates. You know that during the military era, political activities of every sort were banned or suspended, before you can even meet as a group you have to take permission from the police and the permission has to be granted first before you can meet. So, it happened that some political activists were meeting in late Pa Adekunle Ajasin’s house at Owo and intelligence report claimed that something should be done because as a government we could not fold our hands and just watch as they planned to disrupt the activities of government. Then, they were carrying out some activities to disrupt the government of Gen.eral Sani Abacha, so the police moved in to investigate and also tried to disperse them but they refused. So they were arrested and taken to the police station at the same Owo for further interrogation and I was informed, I thought it was a simple thing but looking further I found out  that it was political and I did not like it so I contacted Abuja to give me further directive on what to do. I was asked to get statements from them and release them and this was done. I spoke with a couple of them including the late Pa Ajasin and pleaded with him to just go home but he said he was with his boys and he would not leave them.
But, the next day they were released. Such a decision was taken because we were really in a bad shape, people were just out to castigate, disrupt and make nonsense of the situation and the result was, of course, the masses would have the hammer, luckily they dispersed peacefully and were released and that ended the matter.

Still on Ondo State, why did you say the state was not poor?
Before I made that statement, I went round the state and took a thorough assessment of what was available in terms of resources. There were 13 forest reserves. Apart from that, it is an oil producing state, coupled with the fact that we had a bit of bitumen down south of the state, in fact, one of the largest in the world but it was then untapped. So,  that was what led me to the declaration that the state was not poor and I am sure till today that the state is not poor. No state government administration in that state will ever mention again that that state is poor because it has what it takes to make it a rich state.

If Ondo State is not poor, what will you say of Nigeria?
You see, it is the same problem today in Nigeria. Nigeria is blessed with everything, well-educated people and all the natural resources you can think of, but till today we cannot make use of them to better our lives.

Sir, you were alleged to have said some people were not true sons and daughters of Oduduwa.
Oh, I think that had to do with Oodua Group of Companies. We had over 20 or so companies established by the then government of Western Region and I must say thanks to late Pa Awolowo who initiated some of these things and the company’s headquarters is still in Ibadan and the name is called Oodua Group of Companies with companies scattered all over the Western region including Lagos.  Nevertheless, at a stage around 1997, we could not see any of these companies that was productive or making profit whatsoever. You see, that was the reason for my statement then. I was not out of order, I was serious. I had a lot of problems here and there from all over even from elderly people and some so called Yoruba youths that were supposed to understand and reason but because of whatever they were benefiting from the system, they refused to cooperate. But I held on to my belt and left that place in peace.

While in Ibadan, you were to commission some refuse banks and trucks but you later abandoned them, what actually happened then.

This is another knotty issue. I moved from Ondo state to Ibadan, Oyo State and on my first visit to the Olubadan palace, on my way I saw a heap of refuse as tall as a three-story building and it was all over the town. Before my arrival, I think they took a loan to address this issue. I think they had refused vans. They wanted to build a workshop to maintain these vehicles and to train drivers and other allied workers to operate the vehicles so they can clear these refuse.

I was about five days old in the state when they said I should commission the vehicles so I was very happy because I thought when commissioned, the vehicles will help with my aim to clear Ibadan of refuse within a few months and of course, I went to the secretariat and the vans were neatly packed. I looked round and saw about 30 of them or so, some had drivers inside, and some drivers were standing by while some were without drivers. They wanted to lead me to seat down but I said no, let me go round first. I then pointed at three or five of the trucks and said let the engine be started, two refused to start. I said well, let the three move, one moved but two could not, so I said okay let the one that can move do that thing they do during evacuation of refuse so they tried to lift it but it refused, so I said bye and went back to my office.

What did you discover there, what did you think they were trying to do?
Well, one-quarter of the money was used and portion were pocketed. Therefore, I ordered that the vehicles must be put in order. I gave them two weeks ultimatum and within these two weeks, it was done.

What was your impression of military rule then, especially under the late General Sani Abacha?
I tell you, Abacha will give you a free hand to work, but what he will insist is you don’t steal, if you do, you will be kicked out of his government, so all of us were on our toes trying to do our best for our people. Whenever anyone did good, he would appreciate it but if you did otherwise he would scold you. Therefore, that was the situation and we were happy to work with him.

You described some people as prisoners of war, what prompted the statement?
The entire South-West was tough then, especially Ibadan, we envisaged the coming back of operation “weti  e,”this wild-wild West of 1964, so as a military man, I had to use my intelligence. I felt I should not use the bullet to solve the problem, I should rather use something else, so I used my mouth to solve the problem. That was what brought about the taking of prisoners of war. Really, I did not mean it, but I was thinking only of a way to solve the problem without letting blood.

Like what is happening today, people are already agitating that Jonathan must be president, that if not Jonathan there cannot be any other person. That time too, there was this agitation for Gen. Abacha. They said that it must be Gen. Abacha, even all political parties were adopting him as their presidential candidate. So, the people of Ibadan decided to identify themselves with that and wanted to hold a rally and being an appointee of Gen. Abacha, I cannot tell them no. The only thing I could do was to support them which I did. I must be loyal to my boss, you know.

I remember that Lagos decided to back out but we went ahead and the rally was organized, it was successful, the rally was held in Adamasingba Stadium. However, on the 1st May, something terrible happened in Ibadan. Definitely I was not in Ibadan, so we were taken unawares, we hadn’t a hint that such a thing would happen, so that morning, Alhaji Abdul-Azeez Arisekola’s newspaper house was burnt to ashes, his vehicles, everything was burnt, but  fortunately no life was lost. Then, Adedibu’s properties too were touched. There was real commotion in Ibadan.

Therefore, I came back from Abuja, that very day, I could not go round but the following day I went round and saw the damages and went to Arisekola and Adedibu and went to other people that were affected to console them. There was nothing else I could do. Then there was a plan again by the same people to carry out further attack, by then,the other aggrieved people were ready to launch a counter-attack, so I said no, I won’t allow this situation to even start let alone planning how to stop it. So, I went out, I got two press guys and had the opportunity to talk to them. Then I said to them what will I do to stop this imminent war or crisis? Then the thought just came to me there and then to use that statement. If I use it these people will run to their homes for cover and nobody will come out for the next seven days. So, since it is going to be a war situation and I am the “United Nations,” if I catch any member of the warring parties I will make him or her a prisoner of war and that was how everything was abandoned. That was how the people could not venture out again for anything, so we stayed quiet except from criminal activities. After this statement, I thought that with the dying down of hostilities it was over but some of them all over the West took it up as their political slogan. And I’m sure that the certain politicians in Oyo, Ondo and Osun State won elections on the bases of prisoner of war, I don’t know of Ogun and other places. Again, after my statement there was this arrest by security agencies and Bola Ige was picked up and I said no. I read somewhere where somebody said that I was the one who arrested Bola Ige I said to myself, Bola Ige?

I said no, not with the relationship we had then because we were talking all the time and calling each other. He used to come to me in Government House, we would talk, if there was a problem tried to see how we could resolve that problem.

With all the controversy around you then, how did you feel?
It made me a tough man, it was 24 hours duty in Oyo State, and you slept with one eye.
However, it was a challenge I squarely faced and I am happy today that I went through that exercise. I have no regrets at all.

Sir, there is complainsthat the Igala are dominating and suppressing other tribes politically in Kogi State.

We are larger in number. Democracy is a system based on numbers but we are not really dominating. It is just that we are the ones having the numbers. Therefore, if other people want it, it is a question of dialogue, we meet, we talk, and our political leaders, our traditional leaders, technocrats, and elite will meet. If you call it unfair play, then let’s try and make it fair play by allowing the Igbiraman and the Kabba man to also be, but it must be agreed first, we must reach an agreement amicably not by force. But what the Igbiraman or Yorubaman is asking now is that they want it by force. It cannot be. It was tried in 1999 when one Olufemi took the ticket of the PDP and the Igala groups tried to say that that was a wrong selection but they refused to shift grounds so at the end Abubakar Audu won on sympathy vote instead of the PDP candidate, not that PDP was not popular then. So you see, it must be through dialogue that such things are arrived at.

Can’t Igala people simply concede, having dominated the scene by producing people for the number one position of the state for long?
There is no Igalaman that will simply concede, what about his people, won’t they eat him raw, will he live to see tomorrow?