Senator  Victor  Ndoma Egba, SAN, is the Deputy Senate Leader.  In this interview, he speaks on INEC and 2011 elections, the controversial furniture allowance for former Senators and  issue of huge money exchanging hands at the senate among others. Excerpts:

DISTINGUISHED Senator,you delivered the position of the senate caucus on President Jonathan and 2011  at the PortHarcourt stakeholders’ conference recently. Beyond the fact that he is a leader of the South South, what other factors necessitated the adoption?
Essentially, he has no legal or constitutional impediment stopping him from running. There is nothing in the constitution that excludes him from seeking that office or aspiring to that office. He is constitutionally entitled to it. That is one. Two, I think President Jonathan will represent a new paradigm of leadership. He is the first PhD holder president of this country and I think that is very remarkable. If you recall, it was President Yar’Adua of blessed memory that was the first university graduate and he came into office with a masters degree. He came in from the academia. That is where he had his background just like President Jonathan. President Jonathan has even raised the bar from masters to PhD. In addition, he represents a brand new generation. Thirdly, he is youthful and youth comes with a lot of energy and energy comes with urgency and what we need in this country is both energy and urgency. I believe this President will establish a total paradigm of leadership.

The position you have just presented appears not too pleasant to a segment of the country and the likelihood of crisis in the party is very imminent. How will you address this?
I see that being painted as a scenario but I see it as totally unrealistic. I don’t see that happening. One, it is not  as if there is another party that has been prepared as an alternative to the Peoples Democratic Party (PDP). The other parties are in total disarray. Even if you move into the party, what time will you have to prepare the party to penetrate the country because parties need that penetration from the ward level to the local government  level, to the state level, to the national level  before you can have any impact. So, moving en masse to another party is only theoretical. It is going to have a very little effect because whichever party they move to, they still need to move from the ward level upwards to the national level and I don’t think they have that much time between now and when elections will hold.

Mr. President has been to many  countries  and promised free and fair elections in Nigeria in 2011. Now, people are clamouring for him to contest though  he is yet to give his words. How can he ensure a free and fair elections in a contest where he is an interested party?
He is not the one who is going to conduct the elections. Professor Attahiru Jega is the one to conduct the elections. Professor Jega is the umpire, not the president. The Professor came to the office with an unprecedented goodwill.

People are saying that zoning took place in 1999 and 2003 and that this current kick against it is unfair and a breach of an agreement...
I wasn’t there. I am not likely to be authoritative but those who were there had already spoken on it. I remember in  2007, if there was zoning, how come Governor Peter Odili and Governor Donald Duke were in the race and they ran the most credible, most feasible campaign and nobody stopped them. How come? So, if there was zoning, how come we didn’t hear this debate about zoning in 2007? In 2007, where was it zoned to? If it was zoned to a particular place, how come Odili, Duke and Attah ran the most elaborate campaign?

Away from the issue of zoning, what will you refer to as the remarkable achievements of the senate since the beginning of this administration?
The most remarkable achievement is that the senate has matured. If you recollect the history of the senate in our current democracy since 1999, the Senators always took off from a note of crisis and stabilise later. This is the first senate that took off on a note of  stability and has remained stable less than a year to go. This is the first time we are having a senate president in power for three straight years since 1999. It is unprecedented. And if you ask me what the reason, for me, with my understanding of the senate since 1999, is that each time we had a leadership foisted on the senate from outside, we had instability and each time the leadership emerged internally from within the senate, we have had stability. I was one of those who imposed the candidacy of Senator George Akume in 2007 because under our rules, he was not eligible and I don’t think we ought to have breached the rules under any circumstance .

The news most times is about the senate approving large chunk of money for members  particularly during festive periods which the public perceive to be inappropriate and frivolous. How do you account for this?
I think that is in the imagination of the media because I can show you my pay slip.

I am not referring to the monthly entitlement, I mean earmarking huge sums for Eid el fitri, Xmas celebrations and so on

I am not aware of that. I have been here for seven years, I have never been given any money for any festivity. It is sickening to say that we appropriate funds for ourselves. Let me make this point clear. The salaries and allowances of public officers are fixed by a constitutional body called Revenue Mobilisation and Fiscal Commission. The salaries and allowances accrue to the holders of the specified offices are in the papers. So, my salary is fixed by the commission. Whether or nor not I am entitled to an official car is determined by the Revenue and Mobilisation and Fiscal Allocation Commission (RMAFC). How many vehicles is determined by them. Now, what people mischievously confuse is in their heads. As you can see, I have an office. This office is being run just like a Minister has an office and he has overhead for running his office. A High Court Judge has a court; has a chamber and  has overhead for running the court and his office. I have never heard that the overhead of a Judge or a Minister is ascribed to him as an individual. It happens only  with the Legislators. If I am given fifty thousand naira today to buy stationery to run this office, the way people will report it is that I have been given additional fifty thousand naira as part of my allowance. There is a mix up between overhead (which we retire). To the best of my knowledge, I know that  every kobo you are given here aside from your salary and allowances is retired. If you are given money to travel, you must retire it. If you are given money for papers, you must retire it. From the figures I have heard, when I calculated based on the figures I read in the papers, I was supposed to be earning a million naira a day. If I earn  a million naira a  day, how come I have such severe money worry because by nature, I am not a careless spender. If we make such money here how come you do not see any rich former Senator anywhere? Let your colleague who has covered the senate for a while mention any rich former Senator anywhere. I think it is all in the imagination of some people and I can tell you categorically that those stories are not true. They are not near the truth.

What about the much publicised furniture allowance some years back?
Well, during the furniture allowance issue, I wasn’t here but I have since come to know what actually happened. The FCDA at that time, in 1999, made a proposal to renovate and furnish each Senator’s house for Twelve million naira and the Senators at that time said it was outrageous. They said how do you renovate these houses for such a huge amount? Give us three million naira, we will renovate the houses and furnish them. And the Senators who wanted to take money now became the bad people. Meanwhile, what the FCDA wanted was twelve million for each house which was four times what the Senators asked for. At that time, the houses were government houses. Are you saying that the Senators should furnish government houses from their pockets? Are Ministers’ houses furnished from Ministers’ pockets? Are Judges’ houses furnished from Judges’ pockets? So, how come it is a different role for Legislators and another role for other public offices?

Recently, you  complained  (in a paper presentation) about high turnover of Legislators at the National Assembly. How do you think, at the party level, this can be tackled?
Honestly, I don’t know how to address this without crossing paths because the moment you make a suggestion, they will say oh, it is because he is there. But let me start by  making  this point. As for me as an individual, I have an alternative. Today, I am a Senior Advocate of Nigeria (SAN). And as you know, I got the SAN while here at the senate.  I have not had the opportunity to make money with that rank and I will like to have the opportunity to make money with my new rank and I know the kind of money Senior Advocates make. It is not money that  you can ever find in the senate. So, what I am going to say has nothing to do with me, it has to do with how we can prevail and protect this growing institution. In the United States, Senators are considered as super delegates and that is because they are automatic delegates/candidates of their parties except they do not want to run. What we are looking at is to adopt that system but the question is : have we reached that level of political development that they have in the United States?  The other day, I was reading something  around the world about the United States of America. They started with Senators who had spent more years in the senate than Barack Obama has spent on earth. Then they went to those who had spent more than forty years to those who had spent more than thirty years and those with more than twenty five years . In fact, in the USA, there are certain positions you cannot hold except you have spent certain number of years in the senate. What is the implication? The implication is that the tax payer’s money in conserved but in Nigeria, we loose more because if I tell you what goes into training of a Senator, it is unimaginable. There is no how  a new Senator will come here and immediately inherit Senator Ndoma Egba’s network. It is not possible. He has to start to create his own network. And it takes time for this network to mature because you have to work together  with people for some time before you begin to benefit from the network. So, the legislative arm is totally peculiar and that is why  in all the presidential constitutions, you find time limit for the executive,  you find retirement age for the judiciary but you will never find any time limit or retirement age for the legislators.

Why are people from your area insisting that any legislator who had served two terms should pave the way for others?
Not people from my area, it was a particular individual who is interested in coming here, it has nothing to do with people from my area. I have got the endorsement of the majority of my people. It was the voice of an individual and it is because he has no argument, he thought that argument will work for him but it didn’t.

They allege that your constituency has had more than enough, that you should consider the other zone...
Let me explain that. My senatorial district has two old local governments- Obubra and Ikom. Since 1999, the senate has been in old Ikom (1999-2003). Since then, it has been Senator Ndoma Egba (2003 till date). Between 1999 and now, we also have had in the old Ikom, the state party chairman. We have lost the state party chairman now because it has to move to another zone. Today, we have a Political Ambassador and that political ambassador is the former party chairman. Now, in Abi, in 1999, they produced the deputy governor, from Obubra. In 2007, they had Governor Liyel Imoke, In 1999, they had Special Adviser to the president, they had Minister, they had Deputy Governor. We have four constitutional commissions that we have representations there. We have Revenue and Fiscal Mobilisation Commission. The person from there is from Abi, the same local government as Governor Imoke. Then, we have the Federal Civil Service Commission and Federal Character  Commission. From 1999 to date, the representative of the Federal Character Commission has been from Yako. The representative of the Federal Civil Service Commission is also from Yako. Then, we have the National population Commission which is also from Abi, the same place with the governor.

Now, what the gentleman is saying in effect is that the only thing that has been in old Ikom, take it and add to us and let Ikom be without anything. We also have two Ambassadors from Cross River. The political is from old Ikom while the career is from old Obubra. The one that came to Ikom is a political ambassador that can be sacked at any time, every other position is in the old Obubra and we come from the same federal constituency. So what they are saying is that both the governor and the senator should come from one federal constituency.

What role does the senate intend to play to ensure that Nigerians’ votes count in the forthcoming elections just as the president has assured of credible elections?
We have our basic function  which is to legislate. That is our basic function. We have just amended the constitution to strenghten the electoral processes. The whole essence of this amendment is to strenghten the electoral process. That is why we concentrated on the electoral process because we believe that  that is what Nigerians want.  We are now proceeding with the constitutional amendment of the electoral act to entrench internal democracy. We have strenghtend INEC in terms of funding, in terms of appointments. Don’t forget that this is the first time we are succeeding since 1963, when Mid Western state was created,  in amending any section of our constitution. The first amendment of the constitution under a democracy. It is a historic achievement. We are also going to increase our oversight on INEC to ensure that funds meant for them are released timely and all their requirements are in place long before the election.

People say members of the senate had their palms greased in order to upturn Senator Isiaka Adeleke’s recommendation

I find it very, very  cheap and indeed sickening when people assume that you can only take a decision because you have been given money. For heaven’s sake, at my age and at my level I should also have my own views on certain issues. Nobody has spoken to me. I am the leader of the south south, the president comes from the south south. The president has never told me this is my interest on how this thing should be done and I challenge anybody that was spoken to by the president to come out and say so, and say how and when. The president definitely has not spoken with me and I don’t know of anybody he has spoken to.

Why then did the senate upturn that recommendation?
I was coming to that. When I came in in 2003, my election held the same day with former President Obasanjo. What is new about it? In 2003, the National Assembly election held the same day  with the presidential election. So, what is the big deal about that? Now, we are trying to facilitate matters for INEC. As you know, elections are now  going to hold earlier  because of the amendment we have made to the relevant sections of the constitution. So, instead of April, we are going to have elections in January. The reason is simple. Those who want to contest election results will have enough time to do that before the swearing in. What is the problem about that? If you look at the sequence, national assembly election  comes first because we have just come out from an experience of late President Yar’Adua’s ill health. Imagine a situation where we did not have a national assembly in place, what would have happened to this country? The institution that we  should ensure that is in place before other elections is the national assembly and that is why the national assembly election is coming first, followed by the president because we must have a president at every point.