Dr. Mike Okonkwo, presiding Bishop of the The Redeemed Evangelical Mission (TREM), speaks on the need for the creation of more churches, the 2011 election, among many other issues. KEHINDE OYETIMI provides excerpts.

HOW do you feel turning 65 this year?
It is very good; I have cause to thank God.

Are you saying that all of your goals in life have been fulfilled?
Vision grows. I wouldn’t say everything is fulfilled. We have eternity in heart so there is so much in my heart that I believe God to accomplish while I am still alive. As God gives me the divine health, I know that I would be able to fulfil them.

You are being recommended as one of the incorruptible religious leaders that we have in Nigeria. What would be your reaction when the moneybags come that you should run for political offices?
I am not called to run elections. I’m called to preach the gospel and to raise people who would stand and fulfil God’s purpose for our nation. I would never run in any election.

Are you satisfied with the electoral process in the country?
I am not. I won’t say that I am satisfied because we are going through the same trend. But should Jega be able to conduct credible elections, it means that our votes would count. Then the onus lies on the masses to ensure that their votes are not bought over.

It is believed that if the nation should move forward, there is need for political reconciliation. What is the role of the church in the whole process?
I don’t think that national reconciliation is actually what we need. It is political reform that is needed whereby there is a level ground for every Nigerian to run election, moneybags are eliminated, and godfatherism is eliminated. That is the type of political reform that I would advocate. I won’t advocate for zoning; I advocate rather that we have a system where anyone can come from anywhere. I don’t care if the person runs seven times from the same place provided he can give the dividends of democracy. That is all I am interested in.

Reverend Chris Okotie said that God has insisted that he would be Nigeria’s president. Why is the church and other men of God like yourself not rallying round to support him...?
(Cuts in)...He said God told him, does that mean God told me? Does it mean God told all other men of God? If God told him, God has to tell other ministers too. He is yet to do that.

Does it mean God has not informed other ministers as well?
How could God have told other ministers and they would not support him? Anyone can come up and say that. Do you know that there are several other people who have said that God told them apart from Reverend Chris Okotie? There are other pastors who have said God told them. In fact I would not support a Christian when I don’t see any structure on ground. God is not a confusionist; there must be a structure on ground to follow. I can’t come out tomorrow and start running election when I don’t have the platform or structure. Simply because I am a Christian and have a crowd behind me are not enough. It doesn’t work that way.

Under the present political structure, I would not run for elections because the system no matter how good you are would never allow you to get in. The only thing I can do is to mobilise people to vote.
But sir, CAN has repeatedly been accused of being politicised. Does it have the moral stand to challenge the political structures and politicians in the country?
Listen to me, CAN is made up of individuals. That does not mean that it is not susceptible to corruption...

...But they are expected to be pastors with high moral principles.
Don’t forget that every human institution has their minuses and their pluses. The fact that we are servants of God does not mean that we do not have some who have dubious traits. The fact that such situation emerged in CAN does not mean that we should cancel CAN or the credibility of the church simply because there was a situation that happened during an election. There are still credible people in CAN.

Pastor Ayo Oritsejafor, who is the CAN president, said that in the next general elections CAN will monitor all polling booths. How are we sure that such CAN representatives would not be bought over with money or other enticements?
Before he came out with that decision, it is obvious that he knows the implication of allowing corrupt Christians to go to polling booths without ensuring their credibility. I know him, he is my friend and he knows the implication of doing such. The fact that there are corrupt Christians does not mean that we should not advocate for what is right. That’s why those who know what is right should keep on crying out. Evil thrives where good people fail to say something. As long as there are still credible people within the Christian fold, obviously those who pollute the good water are going to be exposed.

How do we address the issue of godfatherism in Nigeria’s politics?
We should have a new political orientation and system on ground where only credible candidates would emerge.

Nigeria would be 50 this year. How would you compare the educational system before to what we have now?
It is better than we have now. Absolutely better than what we have now. In the 50s and 60s, it was what you did with your intellect that mattered, but this is missing today. Students roam the streets today and they still pass exams. The private universities that we have now are obviously better than their government run counterparts because the Nigerian government is not paying attention to the education sector. Lecturers are not well paid and so they are forced to go and do other businesses. If they are not well paid and the country is so inflated, they would have no alternative than look the other way round. But if they are well paid, then they would take care of the whole thing. That’s why private universities are more expensive because they want to pay lecturers that would stay with the students.

Some have concluded that the rise in church growth especially in Nigeria and Africa is the high poverty level. They argue that church business is lucrative because people are poor. It is believed that people are looking for quick means to make it because God has been presented to take all their burdens. Is this not true sir?
That is people’s opinion. It is not true. I mean we need more churches than we have even gotten. The level of corruption in the country is such that we need plenty of churches. If we can have 20 churches in every street so that we can change the lives of people, so be it. Have you ever imagined

what this nation would be without churches?
But the argument is that with more churches, crime is on the rise.
It is not true. What is their yardstick of measurement? It is not acceptable.

There was a time IBB said Nigerian youths cannot lead the nation, a statement which he later recanted and you are here offering a platform for youth development. Why this?
We send these young people to school. Some of them are doing extremely well in foreign lands. That is one of the things that have made America very great. America is great today because wherever they see good things, they bring in. Some of these people are Nigerians. I think that some of us who are leaders should begin to play the role of kingmakers and allow the younger generation to move the nation forward. The older generation can then bring in their expertise to advance the course of this nation. I heard recently that the chief architect who was involved in the development and renovation of South Africa’s airport was a Nigerian. But look at our airports. I came back from Canada and found that one of the Nigerian Canadians, who is an Ibo, manufactures metro lines. I didn’t say he works there, I said he manufactures. But he has not been able to come to Nigeria to do the same because there is no level ground. When he came to Nigeria, a lecturer said that the bureaucracy in the ministry made it impossible for him; he had to return to Canada.

These old people should go and sit down. They should pray for the younger people. Many of our young people are doing marvellously well. We need them to come back home.

But most of this old powerful and political people are replacing themselves in the various ministries, government parastatals and all that with their own children even when it is obvious that they are not qualified. They are replacing themselves with themselves.

That is what I am crying against. That is why young people should rise up and say no. People should say no to slavery. Are they the only ones who are educated in that region of the country? We all have rights to rule Nigeria.