CHIEF Joseph Babatunde Daramola, an ex-officio member of the Peoples Democratic Party National Executive Committee (NEC),  former Lagos State Secretary of the party and one of the contestants for the national secretary post, in this interview with KUNLE ODEREMI, speaks on the problems of opposition parties in the country and other issues.

What impacts have 12 years of civil rule had on Nigeria?
A lot of work needs to be done in terms of political awareness and orientation. This is because most people under 40 have just started to taste democracy, maybe barely 12 years now. But we thank God for making it possible for the Peoples Democratic Party (PDP) to achieve stability in the polity and sustain democracy. We will continue to learn untill we can beat our chests that democracy in the country can be equated to democracy in the western world. I think that we still have a long way to go, particularly to  preserve the dictum of democracy, which is government of the people, by the people and for the people. We need to ensure one man, one vote, where the vote becomes your power. We will get there. The heaviest penalty a man can pay in the civilised society is when they (the authorities) withdraw your voting power. Then, you become a persona non grata because you have no vote and no say. We are in the process, we are making progress with the present administration’s transformation agenda, which was evident in the last election.

Why is the delivery of the real gains of civil rule apparently marginal since after a change of guard in the country?
It is true that we have had 12 years of democracy. If you add that to the first seven years after we got independence in 1960, you will be talking about 20 years of democratic rule. Nigeria is about 52 years and if you take away 20 (years), you will be talking about 32 years of military dictatorship. So, a lot of people do not know what democracy is all about. In a democracy, every individual has to know his rights, but you can see that it is still not a commonplace in the country. People always leave everything to God. It is not because we have no option, it is because we do not know that we have a right under the constitution to do a lot of things; that the constitution guarantees freedom of expression; that the constitution demands that certain things must be provided by the government.

Again, some political leaders still behave like military leaders, which shows that it is not only the followers that are ignorant, some of the leaders too are not faring better. So, I want to say that we are still in the learning process. The United States of America did not achieve greatness overnight. Suffice to say that the beauty of our democracy is that we have seen four presidencies change hands by the power of the ballot, and not by the barrel of gun. We had Obasanjo to Obasanjo; Obasanjo to Yar’Adua; Yar’Adua to Jonathan, and that has never occurred in the history of our nation.

Opposition parties claim that if they had the chance to administer the country from the centre, they would have performed better. What would you say about this?
Let me say this again and with all sense of responsibility that some political leaders are still behaving like military dictators. This is evident in the leading opposition party, where internal democracy is a no-go area, an anathema, if you like. It is still baba s’ope! (baba has declared and decreed). They have a small baba there, who plays god and determines who is who. If you want to see a modicum of internal democracy, check with PDP, because that is the only place where people slug it out at primaries. Have you ever seen the Action Congress of Nigeria (ACN) conduct primaries? Everybody is handpicked. That is what is happening in the opposition, especially ACN. So, how could they have done better than PDP? They lack the pedigree, credential, credibility and moral fabrics to make such claim. The ACN people are just shouting themselves hoax because if they could do better, everybody would have seen it. Take the case of the last local government election in Lagos State as an example. The results were declared openly, read in the presence of newsmen, but overnight, the Lord of the Manor instructed that they (the results) be manipulated. So, how could the opposition rule and the country would be better? In fact, we would have been back to the dark ages.

But many claim that things are working under the administration of Governor Babatunde Fashola of Lagos State, who was elected on the ticket of ACN...
I beg to differ. Things may have been working in the last five years. But what is the standard of your comparison? You are comparing sleep to death. The previous administration before Fashola was like death, because they (the individuals) were just amassing wealth. But we are talking about living. You must compare performance to income; the kind of Internally Generated Revenue (IGR) that is coming to the state. If this is all they have to show for it, then that is no performance. Yes, people are happy that it is a far cry to the administration of (Senator Bola) Tinubu.

Yes, there is sleeping at the moment; the other one was death. We want life, we want somebody that is active; something that can be compared to the income.

Lagos is the richest among the 36 states because they have overtaxed the residents. They have been so unfair and inconsiderate to the vast majority of the citizens, because what they get as income and what they give back are not commensurate. The roads are still bad all over the place. There is still flooding. They have mortgaged the life of the residents of Lekki, Ajah, Ajangbadi, Ibeju, Epe and many other places for 30 years. What kind of government is that? How can a government that has no human face claim to be Awoist by ideology? In fact, it’s all fraud.

They have increased the tuition at the Lagos State University (LASU) by over 2,000 per cent. This is a monster of a government, because it has no programme for the masses. People have to pay through their noses for healthcare. It is a shame that there is no water supply to the majority. If you cannot get water, good health and education that should be provided at an affordable cost, what is the benefit of the tax the people are paying?

Despite these perceived shortcomings, why has it been difficult for PDP to win in Lagos?
The Yoruba have a saying, Kokoro t’onje efo, ara efo l’owa. We have had moles in the party for a long time. The party has been its own albatross in Lagos. The moles have always found a way to create division within the leadership in the state and this why we are making frantic efforts to ensure that all factions are brought to an end. But it has been shown beyond reasoning that ACN has been manipulating elections. Do not forget that there was an election that was won in this state by late Engineer Funso Williams and it was rigged by some powers that be in Abuja for ACN, because if Senator Bola Tinubu was defeated then, hell would have been let loose. It was all lies. They employed propaganda to create an effect that did not exist. It did not exist because it has been proven beyond doubt by the last election that Lagosians are fed up and they are looking for an alternative; for PDP to take the reins of governance.

But your party had the opportunity to create a significant impression in the minds of the people of South-West in 2003 but frittered it way.
Yoruba states are very dynamic. I do not want to believe that everything went wrong. You are a witness to the Salamigate. There was a judicial robbery in three states — Ondo, Ekiti and Osun. In the other states like Ogun and Oyo, PDP shot itself in the leg. Put the votes of Alhaji Rashidi Ladoja and Adebayo Alao-Akala together, and ACN would not have smelt victory. Ditto in Ogun. Put the votes of Tunji Olurin and Isiaka together, (Ibikunle) Amosun would never have smelt it. So, who defeated PDP in Ogun and Oyo? The PDP defeated itself, because of lack of give-and-take. That has been the problem. If it had not happened like that, we would not have learnt a lesson. I want to assure Nigerians, particularly our people, that a reformed and reborn PDP is in the offing. The party is coming in a grand style and will sweep the South-West in coming elections, Lagos inclusive. The people of the zone are crying now because ACN governors have to pay their master back. Their elections were sponsored by somebody and they must find a way to pay back, and this comes by way of making life difficult for the vast majority of the people. That is not democracy. ACN is an ownership, or dealership, where you have to pay back for good supplied.

What kind of leaders should Nigerians expect to emerge after the PDP National convention?
I am offering service to the party and by extension, the nation. We want to deliver a vibrant leadership. We want to improve on the foundation that has been laid by the founding fathers of our party. We want to run a pdp that is easily accessible to not only its members, but also prospective members. The PDP that I envisage is one that touches the lives of the people, regardless of their political affiliations.

Would you advocate a consensus option in choosing  the next PDP national secretary?
The problem with consensus is who determines the yardstick and what should constitute the yardstick. How do you determine this? It is by guaranteeing internal democracy. Let us be subjected to internal democracy. Let all the candidates prove their worth. Let the people decide who the right person is. I believe that the time is ripe for the right person, and I am that person because I have been tested and in terms of political activities, Lagos PDP towers above all other states. The state is a mini Nigeria; the heart of the nation.