Why people misunderstand me - Aondoakaa

updated: Monday 07-07-2008

Michael Aondoakaa (SAN) Chief Michael Aondoakaa (SAN), the Minister of Justice and Attorney General of the Federation, is a man in the news. He is one minister people see as controversial. He speaks with Oluwatoyin Malik on various issues which have made him to be in the public eye. Excerpts:

REPORTS recently had it that you bought an expensive mansion in Abuja. What exactly is the true position?
The house being talked about, with due respect, is at Apo legislative quarters of the House of Representatives. The house is a terrace house with three people sharing the same block; that is what was called a mansion, and I think saying it is a mansion is a misnomer because the journalist who wrote the story did not come to verify. So, there was nothing unusual. As to whether I bought the house, essentially at my level as a minister, I was in practice and was a successful lawyer.

The declaration of assets attests to the fact that I was not a pauper. I had a little raw cash in the bank. On the day I was being sworn in as the Minister of Justice, what I declared was N40million from one or two accounts. I also declared the money that was in Benue Cement Company (BCC) which was paid for cement at the tune of N17million. It is there in the declaration. I also declared the shares I had placed in the stock exchange worth about N20 million. These are facts that a good journalist could verify to know my worth.

Again, there is the fact that I used to have very big clients. I think it means the clients were paying me; I was not doing cases free. Be that as it may, it is not for me to say I bought a house. The seller came up to say ‘he did not buy it from me’. It is not enough for a journalist to wake up one day and accuse a minister. He should have facts, he ought to have produced the agreement indicating that I bought the house. I don’t want to overflog the issue or defend myself. The day they would bring the evidence to show that I bought the house, I would know what to say.

The owner of the house came out clearly in the newspaper that he never sold a house to a minister. At least he knows my name and he said he never sold a house to a minister. There are many ways of knowing how the house was bought, and that is not the house a minister is going to buy. A three-bedroom house is not a place a minister is supposed to live in not to talk of the Attorney-General who is recognised in the constitution.

So, when it was blown out of proportion, I waited for investigation by the press; by anybody. Once the matter is taken to the public, it becomes a matter for anybody to investigate.

You mentioned that you had big clients. That brings us to the issue of James Ibori and George Akume being your clients at a particular time.
I have never represented James Ibori in my life as a solicitor. I challenge anybody on that.

What about the former governor of Benue State, George Akume?
Representing a client is not an offence. I am entitled in law to defend even an armed robber. The essence of a lawyer representing a client is to ensure that justice is done.

People believe that you have been trying to protect Akume with regard to the EFCC issue because he was your client.
It doesn’t matter. You don’t work on beliefs. Law works on facts, not beliefs. I believe that my predecessors in this office represented various clients and when the time came for them to do what the law permits them to do, they did it. For instance, Bayo Ojo was the lawyer to Joshua Dariye and Alamieyeseigha but when the time came for him to act, his oath of office at the time he became a minister became different from his obligation to any particular client.

Talking about the rule of law, many times it has had any no clear-cut direction. Even when the rule of law is being applied, it is seen as indirectly impeding its aimed achievements. What can you say about this?
In this country, what society wants to achieve is what the constitution stipulates. It is not what you feel in your house that the law wants to achieve. It is what the constitution says should be done. You may feel what you are thinking is the best but that is based on your own standards. But when you now look at the organic law that is set up in the Constitution, if you take what you think is the best and come in and measure what the Constitution has stipulated, you would realise that you are off the point.

What we are supposed to do is to follow the Constitution and not what you think is the best. This is a country of 140 million people and if you want to act on what every individual thinks is supposed to be the law, then there would be anarchy.

Recently, it was in the news that a former minister, Chief Dan Etete, had a case abroad and it was said you wrote a letter to stall his prosecution
I think those people are blind; they don’t read. They went to school but were not properly taught. This was a plain letter I wrote to somebody saying 'please confirm the authority upon which you are doing the case because I have not seen a document that will make me advise the government to pay you your bill.’

The person got the letter and came here because at that time, he was dealing only with the National Security Adviser. There was no single record in this office relating to the transaction. When we came into office, the matter came up and we wrote to the lawyer to confirm to us the authority and let us have it. It is there in the letter. Maybe the people talking were blind. It is there in black and white in the letter, but out of mischief, somebody came in. I think that the person writing should go for any eye test because the letter is very clear. 'Confirm to me so that I can advise the government to pay your bills’, it is there in the letter.

After that, the man came. He brought the documents, made certain requests and we have been working together. He then brought his letter of authority, he said he was sorry that when I became the Attorney-General, he did not write a progress report to me. We went and froze Dan Etete’s property after that. Done by me. So, what are they talking about? I was the one who froze Etete’s property, not the previous government. I was the one who signed the freezing order, I was the one who signed the power of attorney. And this is why I feel there is a need to grant journalists freedom of information so that you go ahead and investigate your facts. I’m totally in support of freedom of information because if a good journalist was investigating the story, he would have contacted M’ofrillo, not jut make a wild allegation.

The Act that established EFCC had it that Mallam Nuhu Ribadu still had three more years to spend in office as at the time he was sent on a course. What do you feel about the issues surrounding his exit as the EFCC chairman?
I don’t want to talk about an issue on which the Senate has taken a decision. I was watching the proceedings on the television and I think these are people who are distinguished Senators. In their wisdom, if the tenure of Ribadu existed, they would have rejected the nomination on that ground, and they never did. In their wisdom, if the tenure of Ribadu existed at the time this thing occurred, they would have said ‘look, we will not accept this nomination’ but they went ahead and confirmed the nomination.

So, I believe it is not just for us to say that 109 senators don’t know what they are doing. I don’t think I should be a party to join those to challenge the decision of the Senate on the matter.

But it is believed that you sponsored Mrs. Farida Waziri .......
(Cuts in) Sponsored in what way?

To fulfil an agenda, probably.
My duty is to make recommendations to the president. I have seen the file; even (Nuhu) Ribadu was recommended by the former Attorney-General, and when the time comes for me to do my duty, I have to do it. It is not on the basis of sponsorship, it’s on the basis of merit. There is no police officer in the country that is more qualified than the woman (Waziri).

You read the credentials; we don’t work on sentiments. I think when she was Commissioner of Police, Nuhu Ribadu was an Assistant Superintendent of Police (ASP). So, how can you even compare the two?

It’s beyond comparison. She went through the rank, from a private policeman to the highest police position she could attain. She attended all the courses, has two masters’ degree – one in law, one in strategic studies, she went to War College. What better qualification can anyone have? And she even got all the qualifications even before the EFCC was established. She was not getting all these qualifications for the purpose of preparing herself to be EFCC chairman. She had acquired this knowledge before EFCC. So, you tell me any better person in the country in the police force that could have fitted-in.

Mind you, the EFCC is not meant for police officers alone. If you read the Act, it says senior police officers and other related agencies. You can get someone from SSS, NIA.

There was also this belief that you were behind the withdrawal of licence of ownership on NICON from Chief Jimoh Ibrahim before the matter was resolved recently.
Jimoh himself cannot say that. If you go to Jimoh’s house, he will tell you the Attorney-General assisted, interpreted the law controlling it correctly and he was able to get his company back.

Let me clarify the issue of NICON. No agency of government was after Jimoh. All the government did was to intervene and ensure that regulations relating to insurance were complied with. That was what the Ministry of Finance and other related government agencies did, and the moment they were satisfied that due process was followed, Jimoh’s property was returned to him. I understand, from the pages of newspapers, that he’s still the Chairman and still has several members of the board.

That is a clear demonstration to the outside world that this government is prepared to follow the law and that investors are protected in Nigeria. Jimoh’s case is a clear-cut demonstration of President Yar’Adua’s humility, that we are ready to protect investors in this country. Everybody thought the company was gone but all the facts were verified and breaches rectified and the company was returned back to him. Tell me any other country that can do that in Africa.

Chief Gani Fawehinmi (SAN), has gone to court to challenge the removal of Ribadu as the Chairman of EFCC and appointment of Mrs. Waziri and you have been joined as a defendant ...........
(Cuts in) Yes, I have the highest respect for Chief Gani Fawehinmi. The man has contributed immensely to this country and some of us, when we were growing as young lawyers, we used to look up to him. I still hold him in such esteem. Suing me does not make me have a different feeling.

Going to court is the most logical thing for anybody who feels aggrieved. I think he has done one of the best things in the country. Winning the case is a matter of the court, going to court is the right of every Nigerian, a right that I, as the Attorney-General of the Federation, is deliberately encouraging every citizen to imbibe.

I believe that he (Gani Fawehinmi) is just following me in championing the course of the rule of law. What Gani is doing is to follow me as the Chief Law Officer to champion the course of justice in Nigeria and I thank him for that.

Many people have been demanding your removal from office and recently Chief Edwin Clark added his voice to that. Why do you think people are throwing attacks at you from all sides?
Edwin Clark is like my father, I cannot quarrel with him. I didn’t read his comments but he’s like a father in this country. He’s a person who should call me to his house to come and see him if I’m wrong. He has never said so and I don’t want to believe he said so. If he said so, his reasons, at his level, should not be based on what he reads in the papers but on concrete facts. I have not had the opportunity of meeting him because he has not invited me but I’m happily looking forward to one of the days I’ll have the opportunity of meeting him.

But let me tell you one thing; there’s no time a lawyer goes to court and comes out and the parties are clapping for him. Just like you said some people are calling for my removal; those who are privileged to go to the press, millions are also saying this is the best Attorney-General they have ever had because their freedom is guaranteed.

The President Yar’Adua administration has been described as too slow in the implementation of policies. As a cabinet member, what are you doing in your capacity as the AGF to contribute to step up the process of governance?
I don’t understand why people say he is slow. You must tell me the basis, the yardstick of being slow. When people call to measure this administration and give the statistics, it makes me laugh. A government came in, it wanted to create something that had not been done for 47 years, for 45 years, wanted to entrench the rule of law, as a way of life. Another government followed the law but did not attempt to entrench the rule of law to become a way of life.

Rule of law does not mean government forcing you but you obeying the law and within one year, we have been able to capture this thing. Nigerians now believe in it. You just said now that Gani Fawehinmi went to court, that is the kind of thing we want Nigerians to understand. Once it stands, it will open up investment. Government needs to create an enabling environment. Once the government creates an environment that is conducive, it opens up the economic, environment, gives good regulations, ensures that regulations are made and not just discriminated against.

The past government did a lot and when we came on board, we did a lot to make sure the economy grew. The fiscal policies were stabilised. Gross Net Weight is 6.5 per cent.

When we came in, our aim was to take stock of what was done, know the direction to push this growth and make Nigeria one of 20 great economies by the year 2020. We wrote a seven-point agenda and started laying infastructure that will actualise that. Mind you, by the time we came in 2007, the first budget which was made for 2007 was half-paid. So we had less than six months to execute these projects.

Now we have a budget. I would have expected that with the seven-point agenda, Nigerians would be patient to see whether things were working. And this is the first time in the history of Nigeria that we have a government that does not tolerate corruption, even at the highest level.

I think things have improved. The realistic power project we have put in place is very comprehensive. We’ve taken pains to find out why the power processing did not work. The past successive governments did attempt to solve the power problem and if they did that, it is incumbent on you to study to know why it failed. Not because they didn’t have the interest of the country, putting those structures was a clear manifestation that the past governments also had the desire of this country at heart. Something went wrong. You must take stock.

We came in May 2007, so we’ve taken stock for just five months. Is that too much? Now we have taken stock, we have laid foundations, we have created infastruture, you saw the regulatory framework for electricity and the private sector participation in power generation. What else can the government do?

But there is still a problem between the executive and the legislature on the budget......
(Cuts in) We don’t have a problem. What we are trying to say is that a democracy does not mean you don’t disagree. Even between you and your husband, you disagree.

The tongue and teeth are in the same place and the teeth still bite the tongue. What makes the people think that the moment there is little different way of looking at a thing, then there is a problem? What is the problem?

Don’t you see the delay in signing the budget as hampering the putting in place of necessary infastructure and the continuation of ongoing projects?
Nothing is being delayed. I travelled from here (Abuja) to Makurdi and for the first time, I saw that all the contractors were on the road doing their work. You will admit that contractors are coming back to site. Two things have made the business climate successful. People believe that this government respects the judgement of the court, so they can work on credit, if they are not paid, they can get remedies.

For the first time, this government deliberately passed a budget and dedicated about N6 billion to pay up judgement debts. That’s a big plus; it’s an initiative President Yar’Adua has taken which is unprecedented. What we have done now is to constitute a committee that will verify (verification does not mean to upturn the judgement but to check) whether the judgement came from the right court, whether there was nothing to stop it, whether it has not been set aside. Once that is done, the money will be paid. I think this is the best government that has ever come to this country.

Should Nigerians expect more prosecutions of past governors, political office holders and others who are found guilty of looting the treasury through probes?
You cannot find anybody guilty. We are not targeting a particular class of people but we are to prosecute Nigerians who have prima facie cases of corruption established against them. We are not targeting anybody.

I think we are going to look beyond the issue of governance. What of the people who collect the money in the bank on behalf of the government? A governor does not go to the bank to get money; somebody goes there to get it for him. Why should we not also prosecute that person? A new dimension is coming into prosecution. The people should just relax and see what is going to happen.